Thrush

[Christine Cagnina]

Hello all--

I'm wondering if anyone has helpful advice about how to rid myself of a lingering thrush problem that's persisted for months now. I use a vinegar solution topically, and that seems to really keep it in check, but it's always lingering.... I need to fix the underlying problem, I'm presuming, and I don't know how to start. It hasn't been bad, just annoying. It doesn't appear to be affecting either child, either. I'd be very grateful to hear any suggestions.

Thanks!
Christine

[Pat]

There are whole schools of thought and debate. External manifestations are hints at a leaky gut and candida issues, basically.

Nutrient absorption, etc. are impacted. The main goal is to recolonize the gut with beneficial bacteria after killing off the yeast. Then you don't get the flares. We have a whole thread discussing this on MDC. (well, many threads...)

Try this one, it is the most researched account: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=941070

Another two: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=952566
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=921487

"Battling Thrush Support Thread": http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=570359

Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=434071

The first will convince you to read the last one. But, Nystatin PLUS probiotics is the best bet of addressing yeast. My recommendation is whole food probiotics, limit sugar sources and decrease stress. Oh and if you have heavy metal toxicity (ie. mercury fillings), it is tough to overcome without addressing those with chelation and detox.


HTH, Pat

[Christine Cagnina]

Wow, this just opened up a whole new world to me... lots to take in... I'm hoping this will help my my little guy's food allergies, too. THANK YOU! And btw, I just saw my holistic doctor this morning (Sandrine Martin, up in Davidson/Cornelius area), and she also put me on Golden Seal and Bromelain. I'm picking up my prescription for Nystatin today, and I ordered some super-duper probiotics (link from the Cheat Sheet thread). Now I need to go back and find where you discussed making keifer (I want to make some with the raw goat's milk we drink).

[Kristen Jorgensen]

Christine, if you have food allergies or your little ones you might have to skip out on the kefir. We have issues with milk and while some yogurt did actually help with my little ones' problems milk in and of itself can help spread yeast. Of course kefir and certain types of yogurt have probiotics, it's just that they have sugar also.

I didn't check out the thread but this is something I struggle with also. I constantly have to keep a probiotic in my kids diets and mine to keep it at bay or catch it during flare ups. Ultimately I just need to do a yeast elimination diet again but it's tough to do when you're already cutting out dairy and soy.

Best of luck.

[Pat]

The beneficial yeast and friendly bacteria in the kefir culture consume most of the lactose (or milk sugar). Yogurt often has sugar added for flavor, in the way of maple syrup. Other research has found some anti-inflammatory compounds (short-chain sugar molecules called oligosaccharides) to be present in goat's milk.

Also, there is water kefir. Sugar is added to feed the kefir yeasts, and most all of the sugar is consumed in the culturing process. Store bought kefir and yogurt may have higher amounts of sugar present than homemade.

Making kefir is simple. Add kefir grains to milk, sit in cupboard for 24 hours, strain and drink. My goal is 1 Tbls for ds a day. He consumes about twice that every few days.

Pat

[Christine Cagnina]

Is the Nystatin supposed to be oral? My dr. prescribed the type you put on your breast (cream). I did get oral for my children, though.

And where can I get kefir grains? Can I buy them online...? While my little guy had issues with cow milk, he does great on raw goat's milk. I also buy the goat yogurt. It's sweetened with honey, but I have a feeling that's still considered 'sugar'... Unfortunately, it's the one constant that we know he will eat.


Thank you!
Christine

[Pat]

To get the intestinal effect, you do need the oral dose of Nystatin. I'm not "pro-Nystatin", as it is a synthetic product that interferes with yeast artificially. I just have qualms about the concept of intentionally inducing alterations in the microbials of the gut. Theoretically, it doesn't harm other microbials. But, we have hundreds and hundreds of unidentified microbials in the gut.

Here is a bit about how it works: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100003722.html

The counter-argument is that "we've" created the imbalance in the gut with antibiotics; and perhaps, this just "corrects" the imbalance. However, perhaps, there is "collateral damage" to other "innocent microbials" in the process.

Natural alternatives include making the gut less hospitable to the yeast and improving the environment for "beneficial" microbials (ph). That includes changing the diet to avoid foods that feed the yeast, increasing probiotics which are able to displace and recolonize the gut, and a diet to alter the gut's ph. It is slower and more involved. There is concern suggested that the longer the yeast are present, the more embedded and mutated they become, and more virulent and invasive to the body systemically. And malabsorption issues could develop due to the presence of candida...

I am not a candida expert by any stretch. It is a complicated issue with many alternate belief systems regarding allopathic vs. natural alternatives.

You can get kefir grains and yogurt starter from Julie at www.culturesforhealth.com She is considered a high quality resource. She posted this recently:

The yogurt cultures do contain milk. Essentially, I ship a small amount of yogurt which functions as a starter culture. You add the yogurt/starter to milk and allow it to culture. The yogurt/starter is made with cow milk (organic, non-homogenized).

One of the nice things about the counter-top cultures is that they do get quite firm and when stirred are thick and creamy (similar to Strauss brand yogurt)--this applies to the Matsoni, Filmjolk and Viili cultures (actually the Viili is a bit more gelatinous in texture than the other two). The Piima yogurt is much thinner (similar to what you get when you make yogurt at home) as it is meant to be used as a drink. The runny yogurt issue was why I initially started using counter-top cultures for my family instead of making homemade yogurt using more common methods.

Any of the yogurts should be helpful in terms of gut healing although the Matsoni is supposed to be particularly helpful for candida (if that's an issue). Since you are looking for gut healing, I would actually recommend you look at a yogurt culture, kombucha tea and kefir (either dairy or water--both have the same probiotic properties). The yogurt and kefir for their probiotic properties and the kombucha for it's healing properties.


There are different types of casein. So, the fact that your son can not tolerate cow's milk, but can do cultured goat's milk, may indicate that it is either the *culturing* which improves his tolerance, or that the type of casein is relevant. Guernsey cow milk casein is less allergenic than Jersey and Holstein cow milk casein. Also, raw milk with its prebiotics and enzymes is less allergenic for many folks.

Honey is considered the equivalent of "sugar" on a candida diet.


HTH, Pat