INTACTIVISM/CIRCUMCISION

[Pat]

Discussion, references, inquiries, etc.

[Maureen]

I just started researching this over the weekend, and was surprised to learn that there really are no benefits to having the baby boy circumcised. When I told my husband about it, his first response was "he is getting circumcised". I told him that I read only 60% of the US now does it, and that the medical community has actually been saying for years that there are no benefits to it. The other pregnant girls at work are starting to think I'm nuts because I won't shut up about the vaccines....oh boy, no I found this issue!!
So, for the folks that have had their baby boys circumcised, can you tell me what went into making that decision? I want to make sure I haven't missed anything. As always, thanks for your feedback!

[Jenn]

Both my boys are circumcised but I left it up to there dad. It was a high school locker room decision not anything medical. I didn't think it was a big deal to have it done but then again I have heard the way people talk about others they know who didn't have it done and it's shocking. Even adults! You would think people would know better but they don't. I'm glad to hear that 60% of boys aren't having it done, hopefully the stigma will change when they are older. My oldest son actually had a really bad job done. You can tell some skin was taken off but it looks like he didn't have it done. We thought about having it redone but it's a bigger procedure to have it redone. I decided to just let it be and when he is a teenager if he wants it done then we will do it. Hopefully he won't have a problem with other kids. I don't think this helped you at all but that is a little of our experience. I can also say that after my oldest had it done we had ssues for about two days after of him being very cranky and sleep issues, I couldn't put him down. We had none of those issues with the second.

Jenn

[Maureen]

Thanks Jan. Like you, I told my husband he can make the final decision on this one-- just made him promise to read the links to websites I found. Everyone I know that has had a baby boy recently has had it done, so I was surprised by that 60% of people aren't doing it now days.

[Maureen]

Is there a way to edit my comment above? I called Jenn by the name Jan (that is what happens when I'm at work with pregnancy brain).

[Pat]

Apparently, it is not possible to alter the post after the 15 minute "edit" time frame. :-/

Let me know if you'd like links about the medical and sexual aspects regarding the decision. Could you suggest to your husband to let the child make the decision for himself about the skin on his penis?


Pat

[Maureen]

Pat, yes, please post the links and I can read them and forward them on to my husband. He is 100% in agreement with me regarding postponement/refusal of the vaccinations so I think he'll make a good decision on this. I like your suggestion of letting him make his own decision regarding it once he's older and capable of making a decision.

[Pat]

The Case Against Circumcision
Issue 85, Winter 1997
By Paul M. Fleiss

Protect Your Uncircumcised Son: Expert Medical Advice for Parents
Issue 103, November/December 103
By Paul M. Fleiss

My Son: The Little Jew With the Foreskin
By Stacey Greenberg

Circumcision Video
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/video.html

NOCIRC~National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers
http://www.nocirc.org/

Article~Position Statement: The Effects of Circumcision on Breastfeeding
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/bre...ement2002.html

NOHARMM
http://www.noharmm.org/home.htm

NORM~The National Organization of Restoring Men
http://www.norm.org/

Circumcision Information and Resource Pages
http://www.cirp.org/

Article~Circumcision and Urinary Tract Infection
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/

Doctors Opposing Circumcision-Tons of Links!
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

Mothers Against Circumcision
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/index.html

In Memory of the Sexually Mutilated Child
http://sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

INTACT
http://www.intact.ca/index.html

Intactivism
http://circumstitions.com/

ARC~Attorneys for the Rights of the Child
http://www.arclaw.org/

Articles by Vincent Bach
http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/index.html

everything you wanted to know about circumcision but were afraid to ask
http://www.stopcirc.com/index.html

Procedure
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/methods.html
http://www.usask.ca/medicine/family/...#slide0001.htm

Typical Canadian Circumcision
http://www.intact.ca/video.html

General info
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/preg...rcumcision.htm
http://www.mothering.....by/circumci...cumcision.html
http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/FAQ/
http://www.infocirc.org/vice.htm
http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm
http://www.circumcision.org/information.htm

MGMvsFGM
http://www.noharmm.org/comparison.htm
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html
http://www.circumstitions.com/Develop.html
http://www.infocirc.org/pressrel.htm
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGM-defined.html

Rates
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2001/ (American)
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/ (American)
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/rate1m.html (Canadian)
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/s...hi-2005-e.html (Canadian)

Medical Communities
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/
http://www.nocircnc.org/medicalstatements.htm
http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm
http://www.intact.ca/saskmemo.html
http://www.nurses.cirp.org
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

Circumcision Not Cost Effective
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/11/prweb180294.htm

UTIs
http://www.infocirc.org/uti2.htm

Risks and Complications
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/safety/circumcision.html (clamping methods)
http://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm (plastibell)
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/3/216 (plastibell)


Breastfeeding
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php
http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/

Cancer
http://www.cirp.org/library/statemen...s/1996-02_ACS/
http://www.cancer.or.....enile_cance...5.asp?sitearea

Personal Experiences
http://www.stopcirc.com/
http://www.circumcision.org/mothers.htm
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/chose_to_circ.html
http://www.childbirthsolutions.com/a...laire/circ.php
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/mothers.html

"Look Like Daddy"
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/Like-Son.htm

IntactvsCirced penis care
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/5pam.pdf
http://www.tornwing.com/peacefulbegi...ysgenitals.htm
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/

Hygiene&problems
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/

Won't it Have to be Done Later?
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

News articles
http://www.cirp.org/news/
http://www.infocirc.org/news.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/articles.htm

Pain
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/babypain.htm
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/100/4/626

%Of Pain Control Actually Used
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/101/3/423
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../full/101/6/e5

Pain Relief that SHOULD Be Used
http://www3.us.elsevierhealth.com/WOW/op043.html

Sexual side effects
http://www.boystoo.com/medical/conversion.htm
http://www.reserach/cirp.org/
http://www.norm.org/lost.html

Ethics
http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/
http://www.canadiancrc.com/circumcis...rcumcision.htm
http://www.sentienttimes.com/03/dec_...umcisionT.html

After-Market Foreskin
http://www.nbc10.com/health/1808693/detail.html

Christian Perspective
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/christian.html

Cute articles
http://www.geocities.com/raisingintactsons/
http://www.circumstitions.com/Itsaboy.html

Adult circumcision(why not leave it up to him?)
http://www.circumcisioncenter.com/
http://www.nocircoftx.org/info/vs.html

Foreskin restoration
http://www.norm.org


Other great sites for research
http://www.cirp.org
http://www.circumcision.org
http://www.infocirc.org
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com
http://www.nocirc.org
http://www.noharm.org
http://www.intact.ca
http://www.mothering.com
http://www.fathermag.com
http://www.circumstitions.com
http://www.boystoo.com
http://www.courtchallenge.com
http://www.sicsociety.org
http://www.stopcirc.com
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org
http://www.norm-uk.org

Here's one from a Urological practice that get's the vast majority right. Only a very little bit of wrong information:

http://www.urologyweb.com/Production.../Posthitis.htm

Here is what I believe to be an exceptionally well written article by psychotherapist, Dr. Cat Sanders:

http://www.newtimes.org/issue/0112/cat.htm

What is normal. Includes information on phimosis, (tight foreskin) ballooning and photographs of what a normal infant and toddler foreskin looks like.:

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/

Care of the Uncircumcised Penis: Guidelines for Parents (pamphlet). American Academy of Pediatrics Includes information on forced retraction, appropriate age for retraction, normal adhesions, function, smegma, and hygiene.:

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

Care of the intact penis as published in Childbirth Educator Today. Much the same information as above.:

http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/peron1/

This is NOCIRC’s pamphlet. Click at the bottom left to see the second page.:

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf

Information on forced retraction-I especially love this: “Parents of an intact boy often know more about the structure, functions, and development and care of the normal penis than their son’s physician.” Because it is so true! Includes legal remedies should a care provider injure your son.:

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/6pam.pdf

http://research.cirp.org (no www)

I also like www.notjustskin.org

http://josh.bakehorn.net/circ.html

sexasnatureintendedit.com

http://www.healthcentral.com/special...sion_intro.cfm

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com has a simple FAQ, A Chat About Circumcision.

http://www.huluhae.com/antonin&anticirc.html

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

Here's a little article from the Holistic Pediatric Association

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...ision-Decision

And there are about another 50 more links at Mothering.com's forum "The Case Against Circumcision". http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=44 Look in the stickies at the top of the forum.


Here are a couple more:
http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm

http://tinyurl.com/5sy6v3


HTH, Pat

[Pat]

Oops, here are the links for the three Mothering.com articles.


http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/against-cir...
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/protect-unc...
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/my-son.html


Pat

[Maureen]

My husband had an appointment to meet with Dr. Kanelos today. Dr. Kanelos agreed to work with us regarding our vaccination schedule, but he is pro-circumcision (and I think he pushed my husband there too). Apparently he said there is more research coming forward showing the benefits of circumcision in lessening infections (that is all I was told, he didn't present any research for me to actually review/consider). Overall, he liked the dr. a lot and said he is looking no further for our baby's doctor. He says thanks for the recommendation!
I still plan to review the links Pat posted, to learn more on this subject.

[Pat]

I had never heard that Dr. Kanelos was pro-circumcision. The only documentation I'm aware of is lessened risk of HIV in adults in Kenya who were circumcised. Of course, an adult could decide for himself about the benefits or risks of being circumcised based upon his actual risk of HIV exposure. And the male has to acquire the HIV virus sexually from a partner already infected with HIV. Not likely to happen to an infant son. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7249/1592?ck=nck

However, "The estimated 1% to 3% incidence of complications after newborn circumcision covers only the immediate postoperative period prior to the infant's discharge from the hospital. The reported risks are hemorrhage in 1%, infection - occasionally leading to sepsis - in 0.5%, meat[iti]s and meatal stenosis, u[r]ethrocutaneous fistula, adhesions between the glans and remaining prepuce, secondary phimosis, and cosmetically unsatisfactory results. The rate of subsequent repeat surgery to correct adhesions of the glans, meatal stenosis, fistula, and phimosis with buried penis is unknown, but our practice at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia includes about two such cases per month. While this is not a large percentage of the total number of circumcisions preformed, it is a significant number of children undergoing surgery for the complication of this operation. "

http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

So, I considered real and immediate risks to our newborn against theoretical risks of some future potential complication of his normal penis. The analogy is that 12.7% of women in America will develop breast cancer at some time in their lives. But, we don't cut off their breasts as a precaution. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Detection/probability-...

P.S. I will send Dr. Kanelos some current research.


Pat

[Jenn]

It's ok everyone has typos. No problem. I just want to let you know a little of our experience. I'm not really aware of the pros and cons at least I'm sure I don't know any more then you. Just make sure if you do decide to circumcise do talk to your doctor before birth. My ob/gyn with my first was against it and didn't do it well. He didn't have any problems it was clean and all, but like I said before it does't really look done. My second son there was a differ ob on and he did a fatastic job. Just make sure it is clear to the Dr. doing it what you expect, don't just assume they will do it the way you want. I know it is a very touchy subject for dads so I just want you to know both sides, I am in no way trying to sway you mind either way.

Jenn

[Meredeth]

We did go ahead and have our son circumcised. For us we just personally know 4 boys that didn't haven't it done. And of those 4, 1 had to have it done at age 13! and 2 more of them have had chronic problems with infection, swelling, redness. So we did it.